Got kicked several times for dissent

[hyethga187]

*EDIT* Excuse me for not using my name from the game [Zhenkov]

I believe that the voicing out of opinions is one of the strongest forms of dissent....so long it is done respectfully and without the occasional profanity which so often accompanies it.

This happend to me just today on your BF1942 server on a transition from Kharkov-Kursk. I happend to be flying a dive-bomber and occasionally bombed a flag that happend to be an uncap, all of the flags were already taken except the occasional "greying out". I was warned several times and to my best effort tried to stay out until being fired upon where I was forced to dispatch the enemy forces in their uncap base. Strafing was involved also and it wasn't utterly relentless.

Again I was warned by a member from your own clan that this was wrong and I should cease the bombing. Fair enough. However it wasn't more than one day before where this same individual on the same map was raining hell down on my teammates into our uncap with a Wespe artillery unit. He rationalized it and said it was allowed. My teammates and I were killed nearly every time we spawned, our vehicles damaged or destroyed, and our planes following the same pattern.

I brought this up to the individual [today] where he proceeded to call me an "ass". Now, I didn't do anything to harass him, I didn't call him any deflamatory names, I didn't provoke him at all. I questioned him several times as to how the arty bombing and the airplane strafing were any different until he further warned such talk would result in a ban or kick.

Incessantly arty bombing uncap = spawn deaths and vehicle destruction

Incessantly dive bombing bombing uncap = spawn deaths and vehicle destruction

Different weapons, same results. Clue me in if this does not sound somewhat hypocritical.

Sure enough, as I was explaining, he kicked me. As I returned, he rationalized it and continued to threaten to kick if I didn't "shut up". The word "ass" was addressed to me since I was supposedly acting like one because I was questioning their rules.

Now is this what I am to expect from your clans members? Comments which are not only rude and disrespectful but which are uncalled for.

Now, these are your servers, fair enough, I am not here to tell you how to change or modify your rules so by all means you don't have to do a thing about them. However, constructive criticism was shunned upon when I entered the server. I was respectful to him and listened to his unabashed rantings until I decided to take it upon you guys.

I work 40 hours/week and by coming and unwinding on a server for some relaxation without being dubbed an "ass" for irrationale reasons would be nice.

I ask that you at the very least repriamand this individual [PM me for his name] or take up your own means.

Thank you.

[Saku]

Thanks for posting your concerns. We're looking into this as I type.

Do you know when it happened (time line)? That would be very helpful for when we look at the BFRM logs.

[hyethga187]

Well according to my first post which was made 2-3 hours ago, I suppose after playing for a little more than 15 minutes after the incident I quit and came upon your website.

So that would make it at or around 7:00 my time [Pacific]

[Saku]

OK Here's what I found out.

TopGunViper repeatedly ask for you not to strafe the airfield. He even took the time to tell you briefly what the rules entailed. You badgered him into frustration by arguing in-game about how the rules are on a TLB server. See log below.


6/27/2005 02:04:39 : # [Global] Shinbat: nice runway strafing. good form

6/27/2005 02:04:57 : # [Global] [ES] Rock-Viper: i thought you could only attack uc if your team

6/27/2005 02:05:19 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: no camping under any circumstances
6/27/2005 02:05:22 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: strafing is tolerated
6/27/2005 02:05:43 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: repeated strafing is a kickable offence

6/27/2005 02:06:07 : # [Global] [ES] Rock-Viper: well you probably should take a look at your pi

6/27/2005 02:06:07 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: who is strafing?
6/27/2005 02:06:16 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: i am

6/27/2005 02:06:19 : # [Global] [ES] Rock-Viper: all of your pilots

6/27/2005 02:06:19 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: but thanks for the tip
6/27/2005 02:06:28 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: ok, i'll kick every pilot
6/27/2005 02:06:31 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: how about a name ffs

6/27/2005 02:06:41 : # [Global] Zhenkov: were bombing
6/27/2005 02:06:56 : # [Global] Zhenkov: no harm in it

6/27/2005 02:07:32 : # [Global] Huskerbreeze: need automatic boots on people who enter uncap

6/27/2005 02:07:53 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: no we don't because stealing is allowed

6/27/2005 02:07:59 : # [Global] [ES] Rock-Viper: nice raping skills zukov

6/27/2005 02:08:08 : # [Axis] GOVERNATOR: Zhenk dont bomb the next plane im jumping

6/27/2005 02:08:11 : # [Global] [ES] Rock-Viper: Zhenkov

6/27/2005 02:08:11 : # [Axis] Huskerbreeze: can we enter uncap with tanks?

6/27/2005 02:08:17 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: no
6/27/2005 02:08:42 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: can fire on uncap
6/27/2005 02:08:51 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: whos in the 109?

6/27/2005 02:09:00 : # [Global] [ES] Rock-Viper: just forget it

6/27/2005 02:09:06 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: shut up
6/27/2005 02:09:12 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: you whine, then forget it?

6/27/2005 02:09:42 : # [Global] Zhenkov: what happens if we happen to para out of a plan on a un

6/27/2005 02:09:55 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: if you bail in
6/27/2005 02:09:58 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: wget out asap

6/27/2005 02:10:13 : # [Global] Zhenkov: does that include stealin their tanks and fending off a

6/27/2005 02:10:37 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: no
6/27/2005 02:10:40 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: steal, get out

6/27/2005 02:10:43 : # [Global] Zhenkov: damn thats not
6/27/2005 02:10:49 : # [Global] Zhenkov: out thats an escape

6/27/2005 02:11:07 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: and stop repeadley strafing
6/27/2005 02:11:13 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: that means you Zenkov

6/27/2005 02:11:29 : # [Global] Zhenkov: ill jus linger about

6/27/2005 02:11:50 : # [Axis] [TLB]TopGunViper: bomb tanks jeeps
6/27/2005 02:11:56 : # [Axis] [TLB]TopGunViper: after they leave

6/27/2005 02:11:56 : # [Global] Zhenkov: um sure

6/27/2005 02:12:11 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: ripping planes up on the ground
6/27/2005 02:12:11 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: is ghey

6/27/2005 02:12:29 : # [Global] Forest Gump: ya so is entering un capable bases

6/27/2005 02:12:32 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: stoopid kharkov
6/27/2005 02:12:41 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: everytime

6/27/2005 02:12:44 : # [Global] Zhenkov: kursk is worse

6/27/2005 02:13:00 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: no it's not
6/27/2005 02:13:09 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: we modded it

6/27/2005 02:13:24 : # [Global] Zhenkov: i know how it is, it doesnt make ne dif

6/27/2005 02:13:42 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: get out of theur uncap

6/27/2005 02:13:48 : # [Global] Zhenkov: cept the new AAs make it worse on the aeroplanes

6/27/2005 02:14:09 : # [Allies] Forest Gump: so much for nt entering un capaboe bases]

6/27/2005 02:14:56 : User topgunviper kicked player Mav for Base Camping.
6/27/2005 02:15:28 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: he's gone
6/27/2005 02:16:19 : User topgunviper kicked player oral B for Base Camping.

6/27/2005 02:16:23 : # [Global] Zhenkov: tank comin into a;llied base

6/27/2005 02:16:47 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: and you still strafing non stop?

6/27/2005 02:17:14 : # [Global] Zhenkov: its somewat handicapps
6/27/2005 02:17:23 : # [Global] Zhenkov: bombing a town
6/27/2005 02:17:32 : # [Global] Zhenkov: becuz my bombs fail to explode
6/27/2005 02:17:48 : # [Global] Zhenkov: and its jus plane stupid
6/27/2005 02:18:03 : # [Global] Zhenkov: ignore the pun
6/27/2005 02:19:00 : # [Global] Zhenkov: there are certainly long enough intervals
6/27/2005 02:19:09 : # [Global] Zhenkov: in my bombing runs

6/27/2005 02:19:22 : # [Axis] [TLB]TopGunViper: try bombing a flag

6/27/2005 02:19:31 : # [Global] [MAC] Neil Diamond: curiously similar in length to spawn times

6/27/2005 02:19:34 : # [Global] Zhenkov: well we got most of thenm
6/27/2005 02:19:46 : # [Global] Zhenkov: see

6/27/2005 02:19:46 : # [Axis] [TLB]TopGunViper: not all of them

6/27/2005 02:19:49 : # [Global] Zhenkov: they are right

6/27/2005 02:19:52 : # [Axis] [TLB]TopGunViper: and you better get out of that base FAST

6/27/2005 02:20:16 : # [Global] Zhenkov: well sorry if i fail to notice the changing hands of th
6/27/2005 02:20:19 : # [Global] Zhenkov: so to speak

6/27/2005 02:20:46 : # [Axis] [TLB]TopGunViper: stop being an ass

6/27/2005 02:20:49 : # [Axis] Zhenkov: ?

6/27/2005 02:20:56 : # [Axis] [TLB]TopGunViper: you're borderline on the strafing

6/27/2005 02:21:23 : # [Axis] Zhenkov: ok listen, you guys are well intentioned however irration

6/27/2005 02:21:38 : # [Axis] [TLB]TopGunViper: ok listen
6/27/2005 02:21:41 : # [Axis] [TLB]TopGunViper: play by our rules

6/27/2005 02:21:41 : # [Global] Zhenkov: its good to have these rules so long as u dont sacrific

6/27/2005 02:21:47 : # [Axis] [TLB]TopGunViper: or play some where else

6/27/2005 02:21:47 : # [Axis] Zhenkov: fun

6/27/2005 02:22:14 : # [Axis] [TLB]TopGunViper: fun isn't being bombed repeatedly on spawn in an

6/27/2005 02:23:45 : # [Global] Zhenkov: of course fun doesnt include strafing but perhaps i sho
6/27/2005 02:23:51 : # [Global] Zhenkov: refer to the incident a day or 2 ao
6/27/2005 02:24:18 : # [Global] Zhenkov: u were on a arty, on kursk, and were bombing our spawn

6/27/2005 02:24:22 : User topgunviper kicked player Zhenkov to read RULES at www.thelazybastards.com.

6/27/2005 02:25:19 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: we encourage fun
6/27/2005 02:25:40 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: spending a whole map getting bombed in an unca

6/27/2005 02:26:35 : # [Axis] Forest Gump: true true turn onthe no uncap base rule please!

6/27/2005 02:26:56 : # [Global] Zhenkov: listen kicking me for voicin out my opinion doesnt show

6/27/2005 02:27:20 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: i kicked you to read the rules

6/27/2005 02:27:20 : # [Global] Zhenkov: again let me refer to the aforementioned incident

6/27/2005 02:27:26 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: i'm about to ban you for being an ass
6/27/2005 02:27:30 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: did you read the rules?

6/27/2005 02:27:33 : # [Global] Zhenkov: an ass?w

6/27/2005 02:27:48 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: want to be kicked again to read the part about

6/27/2005 02:27:48 : # [Global] Zhenkov: so voicing out my opion is considered being an "ass"?

6/27/2005 02:27:48 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: main base?

6/27/2005 02:28:00 : # [Global] Zhenkov: i think its one of your country's strongest traits

6/27/2005 02:28:12 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: and whats my country?

6/27/2005 02:28:24 : # [Global] Zhenkov: i wwas kicked while typing
6/27/2005 02:28:42 : # [Global] Zhenkov: how that violated ne rules is beyond me

6/27/2005 02:29:03 : # [Global] Zhenkov: would u care to explain?

6/27/2005 02:29:06 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: i kicked you to read the rues
6/27/2005 02:29:13 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: right
6/27/2005 02:29:19 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: our server our rules

6/27/2005 02:29:40 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: just everyone and shut up and play the game ok

6/27/2005 02:29:43 : # [Global] Zhenkov: right however kicking sum1 for disagreeing isnt grounds
6/27/2005 02:29:43 : # [Global] Zhenkov: kick

6/27/2005 02:29:58 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: for the last time, you were kicked to read the

6/27/2005 02:30:19 : # [Global] Zhenkov: i was talkin about the incident where viper was on a We

6/27/2005 02:30:28 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: RIGHT

6/27/2005 02:30:34 : # [Global] Zhenkov: and he repeatedly bombed our spawn which killed many of
6/27/2005 02:30:34 : # [Global] Zhenkov: and over

6/27/2005 02:30:37 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: AND FIRING INTO UNCAPS IS ALLOWED
6/27/2005 02:30:47 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: this is your last chance to shut it and play

6/27/2005 02:30:53 : # [Global] Zhenkov: i fail to see the difference

6/27/2005 02:30:56 : # [Global] [TLB]TopGunViper: last chance

6/27/2005 02:31:35 : # [Global] Zhenkov: ill visit ure website and ill fill a complain, thx for

For the record, you appear to be kicked only once on June 27, 2005. (see http://www.kicked.clan-tlb.com/ then type in Zhenkov).

As for the "ass" comment coming from the admin ... your asinine behavior towards the server rules and to the admin resulted in a kick for you to get acquainted with the way we run our server.

I believe the kick was warranted only because you were constantly badgering the admin and disrupting the game for the other players.

If you enjoy playing on our server ... I would suggest re-reading our server rules.

[hyethga187]

Saku']
As for the "ass" comment coming from the admin ... your asinine behavior towards the server rules and to the admin resulted in a kick for you to get acquainted with the way we run our server.

I believe the kick was warranted only because you were constantly badgering the admin and disrupting the game for the other players.

Keep in mind, this post has little to do with what can/cannot be done on your servers. The rules are of little consequence now. The kick incident has became a nonevent as far as I am concerned. What I originally intended my post to address was your own members' asinine comment. Do you simply go off and condone such churlish comments? What happens if your own member was on the recieving end of those comments? Would you not immediately censure them? Even worse, what happens if he does this again [with similar circumstances] and goes onto insult more players?

Being called an "ass" for attempting to engage in an intelligent conversation was hardly called for and insulting. If he was so frustrated with my so called "badgering" the least he could have done was to exercise restraint on his character and not allow his adolescent emotions to do his talking.

You begin to address the comment but for some reason trail off with a series of periods and then go on to call my behavior "asinine" when it was one of your very own members resorting to making incongruous remarks.

If disregarding his sophmoric comments is what's going to pertain, then you can gladly assure the others that I will no longer visit [play] on your servers [nor encourage others] due to the immature and inane name calling and plain disrespectfulness.

In any case, thank you for your prompt responses.

[[TLB]Milito]

It's very simple read the server rules and follow them or don't follow them. If you don't you will be kicked. Repeated offenses will result in a ban.

Trying to debate with an Admin while playing is very disrespectful in my opinion and you kept going on and on about it. I would have kicked you too as would many of the members here.

If you want to debate our server rules bring it to the forums, not in ingame chat.

[hyethga187]

Milito']It's very simple read the server rules and follow them or don't follow them. If you don't you will be kicked. Repeated offenses will result in a ban.

Trying to debate with an Admin while playing is very disrespectful in my opinion and you kept going on and on about it. I would have kicked you too as would many of the members here.

If you want to debate our server rules bring it to the forums, not in ingame chat.

I hardly find a conversation "disrespecting". Was I ruining some deep thought process at the time? No, it was going to be a two minute conversation for the sake of clarity. Being disrespectful is making unprovokingly making unruly comments against others [i.e. like him]. I was not disobeying any rules at the time anyways. I got kicked while talking to him. His comments sounded to violate your "No flaming" rule.

And debate was hardly in it. Debates are much more intense. You can read the text and see there was no volatile form in and of it. I was trying to rationalize it and see what the difference between the two could be. I went "on and on" about it because he avoided answering me each time.

Forget the kick incident. I'm just merely suggesting your [clan if it is] exercise restraint and be mature to the players on the server. If someone is doing something wrong, blatantly labeling them as an "ass" just ruins any chance of professionalism. If I'm somehow mistaken that that is not one of the goals of your clan, then forgive me.

Once again, thanks for the prompt replies and explanations.

[[TLB]Milito]

No, it was going to be a two minute conversation for the sake of clarity.


We don't have time on the server to have "two minute conversations in game chat" while playing and trying to admin the server.

Either get on our TS* server or come to the forums to clarify our rules if you want or if you have questions.

If you don't want to do the above, we can't help you and I suggest you find another server to play on.

If you do the above you are welcome anytime on our servers.

It's your choice.

* Address on main page of this site.

[Saku]

Well its clear about a couple of things.

Your veiw of how our admins run the server doesn't work with your style of play. Your attempt to bend the strafing rules is an example of that with comments like the ones below.


6/27/2005 02:11:29 : # [Global] Zhenkov: ill jus linger about

6/27/2005 02:17:14 : # [Global] Zhenkov: its somewat handicapps
6/27/2005 02:17:23 : # [Global] Zhenkov: bombing a town
6/27/2005 02:17:32 : # [Global] Zhenkov: becuz my bombs fail to explode
6/27/2005 02:17:48 : # [Global] Zhenkov: and its jus plane stupid
6/27/2005 02:18:03 : # [Global] Zhenkov: ignore the pun
6/27/2005 02:19:00 : # [Global] Zhenkov: there are certainly long enough intervals
6/27/2005 02:19:09 : # [Global] Zhenkov: in my bombing runs

My POV ... that meant to me that you were quite content on not heeding the admins request of backing off the enemy airfield.


6/27/2005 02:20:16 : # [Global] Zhenkov: well sorry if i fail to notice the changing hands of th

And this comment wasn't being disrespectful? It was a snarky comment pointed towards TopGunViper which in turn made him call you an ass. And rightfully so ... as TopGunViper had explained earlier in detail the server rules while playing and monitoring the map. What more would you need for him to do for you? Show or point out exactly what TLB's server rules are all about? No. Thats why there on the website here.


I'm just merely suggesting your [clan if it is] exercise restraint and be mature to the players on the server.

I think TopGunViper showed a good deal of restraint while answering several people's questions ... including yours in an informative and respectful way.

With the amount of players that come into the server and play how they play (be it good/bad) ... they (the players/guests/non-TLB) are expected to listen to an admins request and not get into a discussion of why's, why not'ss and how come's.

The incident you brought up with regards to the differences between your strafing the airfield/uncap and TopGunViper's artillery drops on the airfield/uncap are displayed quite clearly.


Base camping does not include:

* Ship guns or arty firing into the base from outside the base.
* Snipers firing into the base from a distance.
* Stealing a vehicle from the base.
* A jeep driving through looking for something to steal. If the jeep runs you over as it drives through, that is not base camping.
* A stolen tank looking back and firing at you while it leaves the base, is not base camping. It is leaving.
* A plane strafing down your plane on the runway is not base camping.

HOWEVER, If the enemy pilot REPEATEDLY does this and lets no one get airborne, that is base camping. We must assume two things.

* He is a very good pilot.
* Your team is pretty bad if they can't figure out how to shoot him down. In this case we ask him to ease up on it. If he persists, he may be kicked at admin discretion.
* An enemy infantry shooting/nading you as he is attempting to steal a tank or plane from your base. If he kills you, takes the tank, and then leaves; That is being pwned, not camping. If he was heading for a tank and you beat him to it by a half second and then he drops a mine under you, also not basecamping. That is a skirmish.

Overall it is about sportsmanship, and keeping it fun to play.

From the time you were kicked and the time you rejoined the server (assuming it wasnt full) was about 2 minutes. Not nearly enough time to type in the website address ... look up the rules then come back and arguing your point.

Anyways ... you think your right. We know we are.

Thanks for your feedback and your opinon.

:lock: